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Post by aramis on Apr 26, 2010 12:46:02 GMT -5
Could you have a FS game that lasts months/years with all the combats being resolved via SFB? I.e. FS being used as the campaign/strategic component and SFB as the scenario/tactical component? In other words, FS as a scenario generator for SFB? It can be... but... as with F&E, the issues are repair and construction. I don't recall if designer's has campaign repair rules, but Commander's does, so the campaign repair rules make it doable. Further, FS has a much more limited counter mix, which will torque off most non-fed players... Fed: BT, CC, CL, SC, DN, CA, DD, CV, FS*, SFHQ, SB, FRD Klingon: C8, C9, F5, CVT, D6, D7, E4, SB, FRD Romulan: DN, MA, KF5R, KR, WE, WB, WH, FS, SB, FRD Gorn: DN, CL, BT, CA, DD, SB, FRD Kzin: CV CVL CVE CS CL FF FS* FSE* FSL*, SB, FRD Hydran: Pal Rgr Lnc FSP*, FSL*, FSR*, SB, FRD Tholian: D, C, BW, PC, FS*, BS**, SB, FRD Orion: SAL, CA, CR * Fighter Squadron ** different from the standard BS, which has no counter, but is printed on the map and combat boards... It really is the SFU as of SFB Exp 1... hydran players are lacking 2/3 of their fleet designs, the orion ships are missing more than half... F&E components played with FS rules are a better fit if you want to use Exp 1,2 & 3...
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Post by Falconer on Apr 26, 2010 14:51:56 GMT -5
Thanks for the list of FS ships. I was curious about that. Although, I don’t intend to use any of the three SFB Expansions, so, if anything, that is too many ships for my taste.
When you say SFHQ, is that the Starfleet Headquarters super space station detailed in SFTM?
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Post by Inferno! on Apr 26, 2010 19:01:29 GMT -5
I don’t mind a flawed game, because reasonable people can tinker with a game to mend the flaws. Back in Junior High School (some 25-30 years ago) my group used to play FS quite often until some ambiguity in the rules nearly resulted in a knock down drag out fight. We didn't play it much after that. But we had fun with it up to that point. Later, I also purchased F&E, but as you've commented, the rules are not for the feint of heart. I could never bring myself to actually finish reading the rules, and consequently never played it. I have SFB, FS & F&E collecting dust in my closet. Every now and then I think about playing them with my teenage step-son, but an old hex based war game doesn't offer much appeal to teens accustomed to modern electronics and computers.
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Post by Falconer on Apr 26, 2010 19:29:28 GMT -5
I don’t know, I think people can still enjoy board games. If you can get him to where he thinks of himself as someone who enjoys board games, that’s when it’s not a stretch to play a war game. Although, my opinion is that some cool miniatures and a high-quality game board, combined with as light a rulebook as you can come up with, will help a lot in that area!
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Post by putraack on Apr 27, 2010 12:41:30 GMT -5
Could you have a FS game that lasts months/years with all the combats being resolved via SFB? I.e. FS being used as the campaign/strategic component and SFB as the scenario/tactical component? In other words, FS as a scenario generator for SFB? We started something like that once, and gave it up rapidly, as one player or another started doing "gamey" things like building only one class of ship, or stacking everything in the same hex. I think that using it as a scenario generator is why the game has a stacking limit for combat-- to allow players to try playing SFB fights from FS.
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Post by finarvyn on May 5, 2010 13:03:52 GMT -5
I took "the plunge" and sold all of my F&E games. I decided that I like FS a lot more than F&E and so F&E was just taking up valuable space on my bookshelf. FS all the way now, for me!
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Post by rsaintjohn on May 5, 2010 23:19:09 GMT -5
Same here. I've always been happy enough with FS and never jumped into F&E. Now more than ever as I just don't have the time for really heavy games, and FS is a happy distraction.
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Post by finarvyn on May 8, 2010 17:42:27 GMT -5
Now more than ever as I just don't have the time for really heavy games, and FS is a happy distraction. Yeah, part of me is bummed about my decision and part of me is relieved. I first got FS in the 1980's when it came out, and loved it from the start. When F&E came out, I bought one but never really got "into" it. Then a friend gave me one and eventually I bought an updated one on e-bay for the larger map. All three sat and collected dust while I kept playing with FS. It just seemed like the logical choice was to unload the dusty stuff and clear my shelf space, but the idea of getting rid of anything Star Trek based (particularly TOS) really gets me.
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Post by scourge101 on Aug 17, 2010 11:45:28 GMT -5
FS was a direct link to SFB and in the rules it does state the use of SFB to perform the battles. Nexus did some great support for it as well. I have both games still and like FS because it can be played in a short time and when it was released the SFB expansions were not out yet thats why the lyrans and others did not make it. I have played with the idea of using FS rules with FE maps/counters....still fixing minor bugs but is coming along.
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Post by finarvyn on Aug 19, 2010 6:40:36 GMT -5
FS was a direct link to SFB and in the rules it does state the use of SFB to perform the battles. Nexus did some great support for it as well. I have both games still and like FS because it can be played in a short time and when it was released the SFB expansions were not out yet thats why the lyrans and others did not make it. I have played with the idea of using FS rules with FE maps/counters....still fixing minor bugs but is coming along. I'm still not a big fan of all of the Neutral Zones in F&E. I like the FS map a lot better since some of the empires touch one another. It would be perfect if combined with the Lyran Space map from Nexus...
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Post by Falconer on Aug 19, 2010 12:27:46 GMT -5
Just curious why you think the Lyrans are a necessary addition.
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Post by finarvyn on Aug 19, 2010 21:36:49 GMT -5
Perhaps the term "necessary" is a bit strong, but I think they really add to the setting. I like the Lyrans because they were in The Animated Series and they give someone else for the Klingons to have to deal with rather than just the Federation.
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Post by finarvyn on Aug 19, 2010 21:40:10 GMT -5
Oh, and I also like the idea of completing the Tholian Holdfast rather than having it be the edge of the board. I adjust slightly so that Tholia is in the center of the "sphere" and connect the Klingon and Romulan empires to the "south" of Tholia. That helps to explain how the K and R manage to share tech occasionally in TOS....
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Post by Falconer on Aug 20, 2010 15:56:53 GMT -5
The Lyrans weren’t in TAS, as far as I know... you’re thinking of the Kzinti there, no?
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Post by aramis on Aug 21, 2010 0:46:25 GMT -5
If you resolve the combats with SFB, each turn can result in up to a dozen battles... typically 2-5 per turn, with an average of 4-6 ships per battle... so using it as an SFB scenario generator WILL run quite a while.
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