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Post by Falconer on Feb 15, 2010 23:02:43 GMT -5
Part of me is attracted to “upgrading” to Federation Commander. The components are shiny and good quality; the game is in-print and supported; and it’s supposedly the smoother, faster, and funner than any version of SFB ever (according to the publisher... but what do you expect them to say?). Well, I did some research into what it would take. The normal route is to get the core set, Klingon Border ($59.95) plus Romulan Space ($39.95). Normally, I would already blanch at a $99.90 sticker price just to get started at a game. However, we’re not done yet! Unlike OSFB (Pocket Edition), which essentially gives you ships from (or extrapolated from) TOS, TAS, and the SFTM, Federation Commander defaults to a time period of the “General War”, which is several years later and during which new ships are used, all original creations of the Star Fleet Universe. In place of the “Federation Heavy Cruiser” (i.e. Enterprise), there is the “Federation New Heavy Cruiser” (which looks like the ship from TNG). And so on for all races. Not only are these ships aesthetically different, they add tactical complexity to the game. So I did some more research into what you would need in order to use Federation Commander to recreate mix of ships from the Pocket Edition. You need Booster #91: The Ships of Franz Joseph ($9.95) for Federation Dreadnought, Captain’s Log #39 Supplemental ($5.00) for the Romulan Warbird, and all the rest are covered in Briefing #2: The Middle Years ($19.95). Finally, you will need Megahex ($19.95) in order to have counters for the ships, unless you want to use miniatures (which of course cost a lot more). Personally, I don’t think it’s worth it. It’s not just the money. At the end of the day, it looks like the rules are still way more complex than OSFB. After spending all that money, all you’ve got is essentially just rules. I’d rather just spend my money on miniatures and a custom board.
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Post by Falconer on Feb 15, 2010 23:13:54 GMT -5
Unlike OSFB (Pocket Edition), which essentially gives you ships from (or extrapolated from) TOS, TAS, and the SFTM, Federation Commander defaults to a time period of the “General War”, which is several years later and during which new ships are used, all original creations of the Star Fleet Universe. In place of the “Federation Heavy Cruiser” (i.e. Enterprise), there is the “Federation New Heavy Cruiser” (which looks like the ship from TNG). And so on for all races. Not only are these ships aesthetically different, they add tactical complexity to the game. I might have been off on this. It looks like the CA that the FedCom base sets cover does look exactly like the TOS-era CA. Though it is mechanically upgraded, it’s not the same as the NCA.
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Post by Falconer on Feb 15, 2010 23:23:34 GMT -5
I mean, this looks like the Enterprise-D to me. But then this comes with a normal CA miniature, not a NCA. Anyway, whatever, I’ve already made my decision.
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Post by szieser on Feb 16, 2010 11:21:03 GMT -5
Sorry to see you give FC such short shrift, but you can't please everybody!
Personally, I really enjoy FC for it's playability and the ease of use factor. I have really only bought Romulan Border, Booster #1 and then have been able to download a lot of the ships I wanted from the Communique newsletter, which just need a little printer ink and a bit of self-stick laminate.
Had I the chance to do it over, I probably would have bought FC:Klingon Border first, as the Romulan ships are tricky to master tactically, but overall I have been very pleased with FC.
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Post by finarvyn on Feb 16, 2010 13:11:20 GMT -5
Yes, FC does seem pretty expensive (and I haven't upgraded yet, either) but there are some neat freebies here. * FIRST MISSIONS INTRODUCTORY MANUAL (free PDF) * FC Reference Card (free PDF) The "First Missions" download is a simplified rulebook plus sample SSD, so one could start quickly and get the hang of the new rules. I like the simplified SSD's. I'm guessing that you probably could use them with SFB with few modifications.
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Post by Aaron on Feb 16, 2010 13:12:26 GMT -5
I mean, this looks like the Enterprise-D to me. The ship on most covers is the Fed Battlecruiser (IIRC). Apparently, while they can use the Constitution Class cruiser, they have to pay money to Paramount if they show a picture of it on covers.
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Post by Falconer on Feb 16, 2010 14:11:53 GMT -5
Sorry to see you give FC such short shrift, but you can't please everybody! Ah, well, you see, OSFB just appeals to me on so many levels. I like original/old-school things; I like how short the rulebook is; I like the number of ships, their mix and balance and especially “era”; I like the scenarios. I just want The Original Series, not Star Fleet Universe. I just want a game, not a hobby. (RPG is my hobby, heh!) I want a game that’s simple but complete, not a simplified introductory game that’s a gateway to an ever-expanding (and expensive) “line” that’s anything but simple. So now I have explained at length why FC has so far failed to win me as a customer. It is not true that I am giving it short shrift. Obviously I have given it a great deal of consideration, and wanted to make it work for me.
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Post by finarvyn on Feb 16, 2010 15:09:15 GMT -5
Yeah, Falconer, I've followed some of your discussion with folks on the Fed Commander board. They're really pumped up about the game, which is fine for them, but they don't seem to be that thrilled with SFB anymore and are even less thrilled with earlier editions of SFB.
I agree that OSFB looks pretty sweet, and should be a pretty complete and simple game in itself. I also can see that FC looks pretty sweet and also seems like a simple enough game. (A lot simpler than recent SFB editions, at least.) As a game company I can see why I'd want to sell the newest version, but as a game consumer I'd like a nice product that isn't too expensive. Not sure if FC fits the second criteria, but both seem to fit the first.
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Post by szieser on Feb 16, 2010 15:44:36 GMT -5
So now I have explained at length why FC has so far failed to win me as a customer. It is not true that I am giving it short shrift. Obviously I have given it a great deal of consideration, and wanted to make it work for me. Fair enough. I'm a fan of FC, so I can see that I am a touch biased, mayhap. Plus, I've never seen the Pocket Ed., so I am probably out of my element discussing it's merits or downfalls.
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Post by finarvyn on Feb 16, 2010 16:17:21 GMT -5
I really like the look of FC, and nearly buy it every vistit to the game store. On the other hand, I have SFB pocket edition, designer's edition, captain's edition, and a few extra SSD books and I hate to simply throw that stuff all away in order to upgrade. On the other hand, I like FC's simplified (and colored) SSDs. Very nice. I did something like this years ago, when I xeroxed my SSDs from SFB and colored different systems with colored pencils before laminating them. Sadly, I don't know what happened to them.
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Post by Falconer on Feb 16, 2010 18:52:53 GMT -5
FC has “squadron scale” (SSDs are similar to SFB) and “fleet scale” (number of boxes cut in half). First Missions uses fleet scale. I don’t think fleet scale is necessarily an easier game, but I guess the idea is that it probably takes less time to play, since ships would get damaged twice as quickly? Not sure. Anyway, I just went and spent $50+ over at ADB for some miniatures, Module W, and Prime Directive 1st Edition (which they’re trying to blow out at $5.00 a pop). So, while I understand they want to push FC, at least they are still making money off an OSFB player!
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Post by rsaintjohn on Feb 16, 2010 19:22:50 GMT -5
I'd been been more than content for a long time with my old Task Force box sets of OSFB and Federation Space, but these days both take more time than I feel like putting in. I bought FC:KB a few years back and although I was mightily impressed by the components, it still looked like more than I wanted to tackle when the urge hit.
But all this talk has me finding it difficult to not finally give FC a shot. If it doesn't work out, I can always try Klingon Armada or just return to FASA's STCS.
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Post by aramis on Feb 16, 2010 20:44:55 GMT -5
SFB's biggest time cruncher is the Damage Allocation. 2d6 per point of damage. We'd roll 5 pairs at a time to speed up the process. halve the damage done and the damage capacity, cut DA time in half.
Squadron scale for SFB is easy; use full SFB rules, the Sqdn Scale SSD, and either the 16 impulse chart, or cut movement cost in half and use 32 imp.
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Post by hedgehobbit on Feb 17, 2010 11:15:36 GMT -5
Falconer, if you already own the pocket box edition, I really don't see any need to get FC, especially if your only interested in TOS era stuff. You might want to just buy the FC rulebook for $11 and see if you like the rules.
As for "fleet" scale, I really don't see the point. Why not just play with smaller ships like Frigates and Destroyers? I prefer the smaller ships anyway but that's mainly because the group I used to play with insisted on having at least one B10 in every battle. Boooooring.
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Post by aramis on Feb 17, 2010 13:24:35 GMT -5
Hedgehobbit, the smaller SFB ships have different weapon:hull ratios from the big ones. FC's Sqdn Scale preserves that (tho rounding errors reduce it a bit).
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