Post by cheimison on Apr 22, 2018 1:51:19 GMT -5
I've been working on some Star Fleet and Vulcan combat styles for GURPS lately, and I have to say that Star Trek hand-to-hand combat really isn't that bad. Some people take issue with it (see here) but that seems to mainly be because it's repetitive.
The fact is that real fights are repetitive. They're awkward, with strange pauses because the fighters aren't chorgeographed by dance professionals and aren't cooperating. They consist of a lot of shoving, attempts at gaining arm control, and less-than-stellar punches executed in an opportunistic manner. Likewise a lot of kicks - because kicking is in fact very difficult - are not the fancy and powerful blows of a movie fight or an MMA expert, but rather push-kicks and drop-kicks designed to shove, knock over and land maximum body mass onto your target.
A fight between two people who are competent at fighting - but who are not expert martial artists, kata masters or engaged in a sport bout - looks a lot like Star Trek fights. I have seen many and been in a few. That 'karate chop' blow certainly wouldn't knock someone out, but an edge hand blow (while it can really suck for the fighter if you do it wrong) can actually hurt someone. The trouble with a lot of 'karate' type moves is not that they're complete Bullshido but that they're so difficult to do correctly that it's not worth trying. But, like the flying side kick, actually hitting with a well executed one can really hurt!
The biggest offender is the 'double axe handle', which is just silly and ineffectual, but given that lots of inexpert fights actually do try stupid moves that won't work it's not even that bad. And a lot of the fight scenes are kind of slow and the actors aren't exactly credible as the physical supermen they're playing, but that's just how it works in low-budget TV world. If you ignore all the punches that obviously don't make contact and pretend they did it's quite credible. If anything it's even worse in TNG, where Data moves like a middle aged play actor, not a Terminator as he should.
I think what most people dislike about Star Trek fights is exactly what they dislike about MMA fights - it's not a dance party with five roundhouse kicks and a flying punch. But that movie stuff is totally unrealistic, extremely difficult and often times wouldn't actually work. The 'Superman punch' and kung fu 'chain punching' that's so popular with the Rock and Jet Li is actually incredibly weak in real life, at least as bad as the 'double axehandle', and probably worse in terms of actually being able to hurt someone who isn't a 5 year old girl.
Some people don't think real fights 'look cool' but a lot of people think real gunfights and real science aren't 'cool'. Personally I'd prefer to see a fight that actually looks like an actual combat instead of a breakdancing competition. Of course I also prefer science that actually has some plausibility and internal consistency, and there Star Trek is pretty weak.
If anything, the fist-fights are the most realistic thing about Star Trek.
The fact is that real fights are repetitive. They're awkward, with strange pauses because the fighters aren't chorgeographed by dance professionals and aren't cooperating. They consist of a lot of shoving, attempts at gaining arm control, and less-than-stellar punches executed in an opportunistic manner. Likewise a lot of kicks - because kicking is in fact very difficult - are not the fancy and powerful blows of a movie fight or an MMA expert, but rather push-kicks and drop-kicks designed to shove, knock over and land maximum body mass onto your target.
A fight between two people who are competent at fighting - but who are not expert martial artists, kata masters or engaged in a sport bout - looks a lot like Star Trek fights. I have seen many and been in a few. That 'karate chop' blow certainly wouldn't knock someone out, but an edge hand blow (while it can really suck for the fighter if you do it wrong) can actually hurt someone. The trouble with a lot of 'karate' type moves is not that they're complete Bullshido but that they're so difficult to do correctly that it's not worth trying. But, like the flying side kick, actually hitting with a well executed one can really hurt!
The biggest offender is the 'double axe handle', which is just silly and ineffectual, but given that lots of inexpert fights actually do try stupid moves that won't work it's not even that bad. And a lot of the fight scenes are kind of slow and the actors aren't exactly credible as the physical supermen they're playing, but that's just how it works in low-budget TV world. If you ignore all the punches that obviously don't make contact and pretend they did it's quite credible. If anything it's even worse in TNG, where Data moves like a middle aged play actor, not a Terminator as he should.
I think what most people dislike about Star Trek fights is exactly what they dislike about MMA fights - it's not a dance party with five roundhouse kicks and a flying punch. But that movie stuff is totally unrealistic, extremely difficult and often times wouldn't actually work. The 'Superman punch' and kung fu 'chain punching' that's so popular with the Rock and Jet Li is actually incredibly weak in real life, at least as bad as the 'double axehandle', and probably worse in terms of actually being able to hurt someone who isn't a 5 year old girl.
Some people don't think real fights 'look cool' but a lot of people think real gunfights and real science aren't 'cool'. Personally I'd prefer to see a fight that actually looks like an actual combat instead of a breakdancing competition. Of course I also prefer science that actually has some plausibility and internal consistency, and there Star Trek is pretty weak.
If anything, the fist-fights are the most realistic thing about Star Trek.