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Post by Falconer on Mar 28, 2020 20:50:13 GMT -5
From the Writer’s Guide: Other than the last sentence, which makes some sense but would impractical to try to take into account in a game, the above system of one earth day = one stardate seems like it would work fine in a game. I am starting my game in Stardate 7149. That’s ten years (3652 stardates) after TOS S2, specifically “Friday’s Child” (one of my favorite episodes), which has Stardate 3497. In my game, TMP never happens (the TOS era proper just keeps going). But it’s kind of cool that the Stardate falls in about the same range that the movies use. It passes the smell test. I made a table for that “.5 is noon” rule: .0 | 12:00 am | Second Watch off/Third Watch on | .1 | 2:24 am | .2 | 4:48 am | .3 | 7:12 am | .33 | 8:00 am | Third Watch off/First Watch on | .4 | 9:36 am | .5 | 12:00 pm | .6 | 2:24 pm | .67 | 4:00 pm | First Watch off/Second Watch on | .7 | 4:48 pm | .8 | 7:12 pm | .9 | 9:36 pm |
Edit: I added the changes of the watch. These land somewhat clumsily, but, it is what it is.
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Post by finarvyn on Mar 30, 2020 20:16:41 GMT -5
Back in the day I noticed an interesting pattern. 365 days is roughly 1/3 of 1000 and so 3*365 isn't that far from 1000. So .1 on the Stardate chart could represent roughly one 8-hour shift. (Apologies to a few sig figs here.) I think you get 91% of an 8-hour shift (I think it's around 7.25 hours) in order to make it work, but not bad for something not intended to be an actual pattern. Especially if a person not from Earth designed the Stardate.
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Post by Falconer on Apr 8, 2020 13:01:36 GMT -5
I took a crack at trying to make sense of the dates from Franz Joseph’s Star Fleet Technical Manual to see if they could be deciphered on their own terms. So, first I made a timeline of the stardates provided. Noting that the Romulan Treaty and Organian Treaty are about 2000 stardates apart, and that “Balance of Terror” consistently states the Romulan War to be “a century ago,” I figured that FJ had in mind a 20:1 (stardates:years) ratio. Hence: Stardate 0000 | AD 2101 | |
| Stardate 0965 | AD 2150 |
| Articles of Federation |
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| Mk-VI (Ptolemy) class Transport/Tug authorized |
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| Mk-VII (Hermes) class Scout authorized |
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| Mk-VIII (Saladin) class Destroyer authorized |
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| Mk-IX (Constitution) class Heavy Cruiser authorized | Stardate 1200.5 | AD 2162 |
| Federation-Romulan Treaty | Stardate 3030 | AD 2253 |
| Mk-VIIA (Siva) class Destroyer authorized | Stardate 3199.5 | AD 2261 |
| Organian Treaty | Stardate 3220 | AD 2262 |
| Mk-IXA (Bonhomme Richard) class Heavy Cruiser authorized | Stardate 3640 | AD 2283 |
| Mk-VIA (Keppler) class Transport/Tug authorized | Stardate 3669 | AD 2285 |
| Mk-VIIA (Monoceros) class Scout authorized | Stardate 4444 | AD 2324 |
| Four add’l Mk-IXA Heavy Cruisers (Mk-IX replacements) authorized | Stardate 4699 | AD 2336 |
| Mk-VIIIB (Cochise) class Destroyer authorized | Stardate 4990 | AD 2351 |
| Mk-VIB (Doppler) class Transport/Tug authorized | Stardate 5099 | AD 2356 |
| Mk-VIIB (Cygnus) class Courier authorized | Stardate 5930 | AD 2398 |
| Mk-IXB (Achernar) class Heavy Cruiser authorized | Stardate 6066 | AD 2405 |
| Mk-X (Federation) class Dreadnought authorized |
The dates 2162 and 2261 for the two treaties are well-established in TOS fanon ( Star Fleet Handbook, U.S.S. Officer’s Manual, Star Trek Maps, etc.). The results are pleasing, at least early in the timeline. Some of the later dates seem incredibly late. But we have no reason to believe that they are not meant to be late. One thing that seems to work about this is that the Bonhomme Richard class is constructed after TOS S1. In S1 “Tomorrow is Yesterday” we get Kirk’s statement that “there are only 12 like her in the fleet”, yet we know from The Making of Star Trek that the Defiant is not one of the 12. But by S3 “The Tholian Web” we see the Defiant in service. The jury is still out as to whether FJ was particularly intentional with his dates, but if he was, I think this is the closest we can come to making sense of them.
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Post by Falconer on Apr 8, 2020 18:43:36 GMT -5
What remains is to convert the Stardates from FJ’s idiosyncratic ratio to the more conventional “Writer’s Guide” Stardate system which I am using in my game (1 day = 1 stardate), keeping the Organian Treaty date constant:
| AD 2150 |
| Articles of Federation |
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| Mk-VI (Ptolemy) class Transport/Tug authorized |
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| Mk-VII (Hermes) class Scout authorized |
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| Mk-VIII (Saladin) class Destroyer authorized |
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| Mk-IX (Constitution) class Heavy Cruiser authorized |
| AD 2162 |
| Federation-Romulan Treaty | Stardate 0000.0 | AD 2253 |
| Stardate system introduced | Stardate 0104.0 | AD 2253 |
| Mk-VIIA (Siva) class Destroyer authorized | Stardate 3199.5 | AD 2261 |
| Organian Treaty | Stardate 3573.8 | AD 2262 |
| Mk-IXA (Bonhomme Richard) class Heavy Cruiser authorized | Stardate 11243.9 | AD 2283 |
| Mk-VIA (Keppler) class Transport/Tug authorized | Stardate 11773.5 | AD 2285 |
| Mk-VIIA (Monoceros) class Scout authorized | Stardate 25926.6 | AD 2324 |
| Four add’l Mk-IXA Heavy Cruisers (Mk-IX replacements) authorized | Stardate 30583.5 | AD 2336 |
| Mk-VIIIB (Cochise) class Destroyer authorized | Stardate 35897.8 | AD 2351 |
| Mk-VIB (Doppler) class Transport/Tug authorized | Stardate 37888.3 | AD 2356 |
| Mk-VIIB (Cygnus) class Courier authorized | Stardate 53064.1 | AD 2398 |
| Mk-IXB (Achernar) class Heavy Cruiser authorized | Stardate 55547.8 | AD 2405 |
| Mk-X (Federation) class Dreadnought authorized |
Seeing as how my campaign takes place in the SD 7000s (AD 2270s), the timeline up to that point will work just fine for me. I like the number of ships it gives me to play with.
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Post by farmer on Jul 8, 2020 15:54:52 GMT -5
I like this time line idea. Similar to an idea that I was working on a year ago. My timeline was based more on using Stardates as directly derived from Julian dates. It creates some distortions like the 5 year mission being 13.7 years long! Have to find my notes.
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Post by Falconer on Jul 18, 2020 9:08:49 GMT -5
I cleaned up my posts so that I wasn’t presenting the exact same info 5 times!
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Post by Falconer on Jul 18, 2020 9:13:11 GMT -5
I like this time line idea. Similar to an idea that I was working on a year ago. My timeline was based more on using Stardates as directly derived from Julian dates. It creates some distortions like the 5 year mission being 13.7 years long! Have to find my notes. Yeah, the show wasn’t really trying to be super consistent in creating a timeline (it even says in the Writer’s Guide that they only worry about consistent within an episode—but even then they sometimes fail). So I don’t worry about it. I am just trying to find something practical for a RPG, that passes the smell test and that I can consistently follow within my campaign.
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Post by leam on Oct 21, 2021 6:27:09 GMT -5
Ensign straight-from-registraion question: it looks like 5943.7 was the episode "All our Yesterdays". If I set up a game that's roughly at the end of the TOS known, 5959.0 would be a reasonable date? I'm trying to give the players access to TOS canon without all the "just found" stuff change the flavor of the game.
And, since this seems to be my first post here; thank you for the great resource!
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Post by Falconer on Oct 21, 2021 14:55:35 GMT -5
Welcome, Leam! Yeah, if picking up right after the end of TOS, I would recalibrate the TOS stardates, something like this: # | Name | Stardate | Earth Date | 1 | The Cage | 1152 | 7/27/2251 | 2 | Where No Man Has Gone Before | 4098 | 8/20/2259 | 3 | The Corbomite Maneuver | 4496 | 9/21/2260 | 4 | Mudd's Women | 4507 | 10/2/2260 | 5 | The Enemy Within | 4523 | 10/18/2260 | 6 | The Man Trap | 4533 | 10/28/2260 | 7 | The Naked Time | 4543 | 11/7/2260 | 8 | Charlie X | 4558 | 11/22/2260 | 9 | Balance of Terror | 4569 | 12/3/2260 | 10 | What Are Little Girls Made Of? | 4579 | 12/13/2260 | 11 | Dagger of the Mind | 4595 | 12/29/2260 | 12 | Miri | 4612 | 1/15/2261 | 13 | The Conscience of the King | 4640 | 2/12/2261 | 14 | The Galileo Seven | 4651 | 2/23/2261 | 15 | Court Martial | 4666 | 3/10/2261 | 16 | The Menagerie | 4805 | 7/27/2261 | 17 | Shore Leave | 4815 | 8/6/2261 | 18 | The Squire of Gothos | 4827 | 8/18/2261 | 19 | Arena | 4841 | 9/1/2261 | 20 | The Alternative Factor | 4851 | 9/11/2261 | 21 | Tomorrow is Yesterday | 4867 | 9/27/2261 | 22 | The Return of the Archons | 4877 | 10/7/2261 | 24 | Space Seed | 4888 | 10/18/2261 | 23 | A Taste of Armageddon | 4904 | 11/3/2261 | 25 | This Side of Paradise | 4915 | 11/14/2261 | 26 | The Devil in the Dark | 4930 | 11/29/2261 | 27 | Errand of Mercy | 4943 | 12/12/2261 | 28 | The City on the Edge of Forever | 4953 | 12/22/2261 | 29 | Operation—Annihilate! | 4967 | 1/5/2262 | 30 | Catspaw | 5066 | 4/14/2262 | 31 | Metamorphosis | 5078 | 4/26/2262 | 32 | Friday’s Child | 5088 | 5/6/2262 | 33 | Who Mourns for Adonais? | 5103 | 5/21/2262 | 34 | Amok Time | 5115 | 6/2/2262 | 35 | The Doomsday Machine | 5129 | 6/16/2262 | 36 | Wolf in the Fold | 5138 | 6/25/2262 | 37 | The Changeling | 5150 | 7/7/2262 | 38 | The Apple | 5160 | 7/17/2262 | 39 | Mirror, Mirror | 5174 | 7/31/2262 | 40 | The Deadly Years | 5186 | 8/12/2262 | 41 | I, Mudd | 5196 | 8/22/2262 | 42 | The Trouble with Tribbles | 5210 | 9/5/2262 | 43 | Bread and Circuses | 5237 | 10/2/2262 | 44 | Journey to Babel | 5249 | 10/14/2262 | 45 | A Private Little War | 5259 | 10/24/2262 | 46 | The Gamesters of Triskelion | 5282 | 11/16/2262 | 47 | Obsession | 5272 | 11/6/2262 | 48 | The Immunity Syndrome | 5293 | 11/27/2262 | 49 | A Piece of the Action | 5303 | 12/7/2262 | 50 | By Any Other Name | 5313 | 12/17/2262 | 51 | Return to Tomorrow | 5326 | 12/30/2262 | 52 | Patterns of Force | 5338 | 1/11/2263 | 53 | The Ultimate Computer | 5348 | 1/21/2263 | 54 | The Omega Glory | 5358 | 1/31/2263 | 55 | Assignment: Earth | 5382 | 2/24/2263 | 56 | Spectre of the Gun | 5562 | 8/23/2263 | 57 | Elaan of Troyius | 5575 | 9/5/2263 | 58 | The Paradise Syndrome | 5589 | 9/19/2263 | 59 | The Enterprise Incident | 5688 | 12/27/2263 | 60 | And the Children Shall Lead | 5698 | 1/6/2264 | 61 | Spock’s Brain | 5713 | 1/21/2264 | 62 | Is There in Truth No Beauty? | 5723 | 1/31/2264 | 63 | The Empath | 5734 | 2/11/2264 | 64 | The Tholian Web | 5749 | 2/26/2264 | 65 | For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky | 5759 | 3/7/2264 | 66 | Day of the Dove | 5788 | 4/5/2264 | 67 | Plato’s Stepchildren | 5812 | 4/29/2264 | 68 | Wink of an Eye | 5823 | 5/10/2264 | 69 | That Which Survives | 5834 | 5/21/2264 | 70 | Let That Be Your Last Battlefield | 5844 | 5/31/2264 | 71 | Whom Gods Destroy | 5857 | 6/13/2264 | 72 | The Mark of Gideon | 5868 | 6/24/2264 | 73 | The Lights of Zetar | 5880 | 7/6/2264 | 74 | The Cloud Minders | 5894 | 7/20/2264 | 75 | The Way to Eden | 5906 | 8/1/2264 | 76 | Requiem for Methuselah | 5920 | 8/15/2264 | 77 | The Savage Curtain | 5931 | 8/26/2264 | 78 | All Our Yesterdays | 5943 | 9/7/2264 | 79 | Turnabout Intruder | 5957 | 9/21/2264 |
You don’t have to share this with your players, or claim it is canon or anything, but just keep it handy in order to be able to easily calculate how long it has been since a given TOS event. So if you start right on 5957, you know that first contact with the Gorn was 1,116 days ago, or just over 3 years. The stardates given in the episodes were basically just atmospheric and unusable for such calculations. So if you use the stardate actually uttered in “Arena,” it will suggest it took place 2,912 days ago, which would be 8 years ago. But it was supposed to be a five-year mission! My own campaign is set 8 years post-TOS*, so I calculated the TOS stardates somewhat differently. I was more interested in “Errand of Mercy” staying at SD 3198 than in “All Our Yesterdays” staying at SD 5943. But I think yes, if you are starting immediately post-TOS then you will want to start in the 5900s, and therefore you should bump everything else up accordingly. * - But the movies never happen, and the “TOS era” continues indefinitely.
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Post by ThrorII on Oct 21, 2021 17:43:42 GMT -5
As the writers guide stated, 1 stardate is 24 hours, and tenths of stardates (.4, .5, etc) are tenths of a day (2.4 hours).
It is nice that the Original Series was vague enough that we can all have our own take on it.
Personally, I subscribe to the theory that the Original Series took place 200 years from now. I also like using the modified Julian day. With that in mind, it is interesting to note that "Space Seed" has a stardate of 3141, and is "two hundred years" since Khan fled Earth in 1996. By Julian dates, 12-3141 is Sunday, January 10th, 2196 --exactly 200 years later!!!!
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Post by rredmond on Oct 22, 2021 9:24:16 GMT -5
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Post by leam on Oct 22, 2021 14:21:41 GMT -5
Hullo rredmond! Thanks for pointing me here.
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Post by aramis on Oct 22, 2021 20:38:09 GMT -5
I've usually used the 100 stardates per year method. so 1 SD = 3d 15:36 (or 87:36), and ships watches of 0.05 SD watch, 3-watch rotation... 4:22:48 per watch.
I recall FASA had their own conversion, I don't recall it, and am too lazy to look now, but I used to use it.
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Post by Falconer on Oct 22, 2021 22:31:09 GMT -5
Personally, I subscribe to the theory that the Original Series took place 200 years from now. I also like using the modified Julian day. With that in mind, it is interesting to note that "Space Seed" has a stardate of 3141, and is "two hundred years" since Khan fled Earth in 1996. By Julian dates, 12-3141 is Sunday, January 10th, 2196 --exactly 200 years later!!!! I’ll make this into a Google sheet so you can center it on any earth date and any stardate you prefer.
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Post by Falconer on Oct 22, 2021 22:49:07 GMT -5
I recall FASA had their own conversion, I don't recall it, and am too lazy to look now, but I used to use it. FASA uses “reference stardates” in the form A/AABB.CC, where year is 2AAA, month is BB, and day is CC. They don’t pretend that’s the same as stardates from the show, though. Those still exist in FASA, but they never bother to actually work them out, as far as I can tell.
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