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Post by coyotepunc on Apr 8, 2020 21:16:33 GMT -5
To me, there is only TOS, TAS, and the first four movies. But we see a big change in the appearance and culture of the klingons between TOS/TAS and the movies. Although there was some handwavium about in later series, I 1) don't count the subsequent series as canon, and 2) I don't buy what they try to sell as the explanation.
Here's the way I see it:
The klingons of TOS/TAS were clearly in the market as arms dealers. They sold ships to the Romulans, at the very least. And although the crew of the Enterprise had a few dealings with them, I'm pretty sure most of Star Fleet and the Federation at large had very little contact with them, or even much news and information regarding them. Kind of like most people in the USA are unlikely to be abke to identify what Boko Haram is, let alone what uniforms they wear.
So, I think the klingons probably sold ships and guns to another humanoid, albeit ridge-headed, spacefaring species with an overlapping sphere of influence. As this new species began aggressive intrusions along the Nuetral Zone, they were probably mistaken for klingons by a reasonably ignorant Federation, and were identified as such in english regardless of their name for themselves.
Thoughts?
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Post by finarvyn on Apr 9, 2020 7:41:07 GMT -5
Already replied on ODD74 about this, but here is the preffered place for such discussions (if anyone else reads these boards anymore).
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I love your chain of thought on this, but it's possible you have it backwards.
"True Klingons" (which we perhaps never got to see in TOS) are these ridged-headed dudes who are out to kill everyone and wage wars. The selected some sort of lesser half-Klingon species (which looked mostly human) to be their representatives and arms dealers, thinking correctly that aliens who looked more like humans would be able to deal with the Federation better.
So, the ridge-headed Klingons are the puppeteers and the humanoid Klingons are the contact men.
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Post by coyotepunc on Apr 9, 2020 9:26:50 GMT -5
I am unsure of how much traffic is here, whichvis why I posted to OD&D74 as well
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Post by Falconer on Apr 9, 2020 9:45:17 GMT -5
Yeah, the 80s RPG and novels postulate that the TMP Klingons are the original, “Imperial Race,” and that there are also Human Fusion and Romulan Fusion Klingons. The Klingons are apparently all about eugenics and have no qualms about breeding “lesser” races to do their bidding more effectively. So the Human Fusion Klingons are the ones we see in TOS, i.e., they are the ones psychologically and otherwise best suited to interacting with the Federation. (And infiltrating it, as we see in “The Trouble with Tribbles”.)
I’m not in love with this explanation, but, I think I will default to it, in a pinch. In my own campaign, I hew to TOS aesthetics pretty relentlessly, so, at least in my own imagination it’s all going to be TOS-style Klingons. But we’re going to play some of the modules where the PCs are Klingons, and, if some of the players want to imagine themselves TMP-style, then, this explanation allows them to coexist without it being a big deal.
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Post by finarvyn on Apr 9, 2020 12:19:44 GMT -5
Here's the thing for me … I love the TOS representation of the Klingon, but I can understand that the funny-forehead version has be "canon" in the movies and such for many decades now and that makes it hard to ignore. So the big question is always how to reconcile the old with the new. I do like the notion that Klingons wouldn't just look like humans with beards.
Or that Romulans wouldn't just be Vulcans with emotion and look like humans with bowl haircuts. One thing that I did like about the JJA reboot movies was the bald Romulans with tattooed heads. Makes them look different from Vulcans, although I guess this would mess up the plot of "Balance of Terror." (Which is one of my all-time favorite episodes, by the way.)
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c57d
Lt. Commander
Posts: 169
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Post by c57d on Apr 11, 2020 12:54:29 GMT -5
Much as I love the Klingon portrayal in the excellent "The Final Reflection" (best ever ST tie in novel by the way, imho), and so in the FASA Klingon supplements and scenarios, I have recently been extrapolating around TOS only Klingons, especially as seen in "An Errand of mercy", The Trouble with Tribbles" and "Day of the Dove". They seem to be totalitarian, resource poor, extremely pragmatic, fanatically obedient & loyal to the Empire, always watched (even a planetry/invasion govenor!),crafty, amoral ("ends justify the means") and intelligent. They seem to almost be a sort of intelligent sentient army ant. Go out ever wider to secure resources and return back the nest/Empire. Destroy anything that stands in their way or die trying.The individual means nothing, it is the whole that comes first. I have tried to brainstorm how you would portray all this is a ST RPG campaign? No where near as detailled as TFR, but still quite fun. I also tried to brainstorm how classic TOS episodes would play out if these Klingons were the "hero crew"!
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Post by Ronin84 on Apr 15, 2020 12:18:58 GMT -5
I rolled with the explanations given in the FASA system, that was hinted above, I never liked the Enterprise explanation. I think it was in Starfleet Battles where they talked about servitor races and that has always stuck in my mind as well. I agree about JJ's Romulans, but I also like the Romulans from the Picard series, pointed ears but radically different in their views. In my games I haven't touched on it, I just roll with it and if it comes up then default to my Imperial v Humanized servitor race of Klingons. Romulans are my boogeymen for the most part...if you see them, it's bad. Just my 2 cents and wanted to increase traffic here!
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Post by Falconer on Apr 15, 2020 14:08:02 GMT -5
Re: Romulans, I have only seen the two TOS episodes and the 2009 movie, and I greatly prefer the TOS portrayal. They seem like ancient Romans via Shakespeare via Star Trek. “Danger and I are old companions.” The eagle standard (Roman aquila). Awesome!
Whereas I thought the portrayal in the 2009 movie was just generic badguy, and my single least favorite aspect of that movie. He was like Darth Maul—just there to attack the good guys and be unrelentingly evil with no real motive.
Oh, I also saw Nemesis, but I don’t remember anything about its Romulans.
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Post by coyotepunc on Apr 15, 2020 18:38:10 GMT -5
The 2009 Romulans are not Romulan military. They're a mining team that shaved and tattood their heads in remembrance of the destruction of Romulus. They should not be considered "typical" in any way.
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Post by blackbat242 on Apr 15, 2020 22:42:34 GMT -5
Yes - much in the Abrams-Trek movies are NOT fitting for the TOS universe - they are different - sometimes radically so.
Remember, it was explicitly stated that the Abrams-Trek movies are in an alternate parallel universe that diverged from the TOS-canon one decades before the start of TOS, so many things are changed significantly.
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Post by Falconer on Jun 8, 2020 12:19:28 GMT -5
Here’s another take. There is an early “tech fandom” booklet called From the Files of Star Fleet Command which I normally don’t really pay any attention to because it’s entirely devoted to new developments from TMP, such as refit tech and uniforms, which are N/A for my campaign. However, it gives one possible solution for the two types of Klingons: Again, the events described will never occur in my campaign. And I mainly intend to feature TOS-style Klingons only. But, I like the nomenclature, here, and I think I will keep it up my sleeve for if/when the issue arises. Because the “Imperial Race” and “Human Fusion” nomenclature just doesn’t work for me—it diminishes the latter. So to be able to rely on the terminology of Kazh and Kahless is much better. After all, why shouldn’t it be a multi-racial empire? And since the events of TMP simply never arrive in my campaign, Kazh remains dominant.
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Post by Falconer on Jun 22, 2020 13:35:10 GMT -5
I love this quote from The Making of Star Trek, and decided to make it a meme:
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c57d
Lt. Commander
Posts: 169
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Post by c57d on Jun 27, 2020 5:20:42 GMT -5
Returning to my earlier post in this thread. I am trying to extrapolate how I might run a "TOS only" Klingon campaign. The PC's would be the senior crew of a D7, and carry out a similar range of missions to those that Kirk and his crew did. Although there would be nothing like a Prime Directive (!!!), I imagine that the Empire's (often mentioned) resource poor status would mean that in many cases the captain would need to weigh up the cost against the benefit, and justify that to his superiors. Do you conduct an assualt on a newly discovered resource rich world, probably devastating said resource, and also the workforce and supporting infrastructure? Or do you negotiate (and decieve?) the planetry leaders to "join" the Empire and "share" their resource with it? Maybe scoutships bypass worlds which, after a cursory investigation,seem to have nothing that the Empire needs. But, in so doing, overlook something vital (and maybe very dangerous?) which may emerge later. The ship's science department would be solely to support resource procurement and/or identify colony suitability (or otherwise). Also, since everyone seems to be constantly watched, maybe several "Yeoman types" accompany landing parties with AV recorders to ensure all actions are noted. Anyway, just a few thoughts. I maybe need to brainstorm some scenario outlines next,maybe adapting some TOS episodes to see how Klingons would fare in that situation?
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c57d
Lt. Commander
Posts: 169
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Post by c57d on Mar 21, 2021 7:17:03 GMT -5
While (still) toying with a TOS Klingon campaign, I came across this little snippet from "Day of the Dove".
MARA: We are forty against four hundred. KLINGON: Four thousand throats may be cut in one night by a running man. KANG: Patience. Vigilance. They will make a mistake.
Two things strike me here. 1. Kang accepts and replies to a subordinate's suggestion. A TNG Klingon captain would have had such a subordinate shot! 2.Kang also decides to act with "Patience" and "Vigilance". So different to the raging TNG Klingons.
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