c57d
Lt. Commander
Posts: 169 
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Post by c57d on Jul 27, 2020 6:58:56 GMT -5
For me S1 of TOS has always both stood out from what followed and been my favourite. And one aspect of that uniqueness is the frequent references to Earth and UESPA etc. Now, I know that in RL it was just that the production team hadn't yet got the setting details tied-down, but I wonder what a sensible in-universe reason for all this might look like?
My take follows, but I would love to see what everyone else thinks?
I think that United Earth is the political organisation and UESPA the space exploration and defence arm of that. There may be a few allied/incorporated/federated planets & sentient species, but Earth/Terra is the first among equals.
As a good example, Vulcan is one of these allies, but only truly allied in the last 10-15 or so years.The Axanar incident was a major turning point and seens to have involved some sort of conflict (extrapolated from Kirk's lines in " Whom gods destroy") followed by a peace mission (again WGD and Kirk having a Axanar peace medal in "Court martial". Again in CM Kirk mentions "the Vulcan(ian) Expedition". The way in which it is said sounds to me like a big thing and not just a collaboration with/visit to an ally of close and long association? Also there is the frequent prejudice against Spock, and the fact that McCoy doesn't seem to know Vulcan physiology and medicine. Again this doesn't feel like close allies? And don't get me started on "Amok Time" where a visit to Vulcan seems just as much mystery and social "exploration" as do the visits to unknown planets throughout TOS.
Just a few thoughts, I'd love to read yours......
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Post by Falconer on Jul 27, 2020 9:28:08 GMT -5
Yeah, I love that early premise of Man exploring the stars. It’s so relatable and heroic. Also, it better emphasizes human unity in diversity, which is a strong message we need today. I consider the “only one alien” makeup of the Enterprise to be a feature, not a bug. (Also starbases and every other ship we know of other than Intrepid.) Basically, I treat the Federation as the Human Empire in all but name. They are truly benevolent, but, basically at some point they renamed United Earth to the UFP and UESPA to Starfleet, without any serious administrative or structural changes. Remember also that, per The Conscience of the King, Vulcan was conquered… |
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c57d
Lt. Commander
Posts: 169
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Post by c57d on Jul 27, 2020 11:29:40 GMT -5
Yeah, I love that early premise of Man exploring the stars. It’s so relatable and heroic. Also, it better emphasizes human unity in diversity, which is a strong message we need today. I consider the “only one alien” makeup of the Enterprise to be a feature, not a bug. (Also starbases and every other ship we know of other than Intrepid.) Basically, I treat the Federation as the Human Empire in all but name. They are truly benevolent, but, basically at some point they renamed United Earth to the UFP and UESPA to Starfleet, without any serious administrative or structural changes. Remember also that, per The Conscience of the King, Vulcan was conquered… Yeah, I much prefer the Humans did it all by themselves as implied in TOS, rather than Vulcans babysitting us in "First Contact" and "Enterprise"! Thank you for reminding me about the whole "Vulcan conquered" line in CotK. Question is, is this related to the Axanar conflict then peace incident, and if so, who did the conquering Vulcan part? Was it UE or Axanar? Edit: The prejudice and seeming lack of respect shown to Spock in S1 does make it look like he is either seen as "one of those we recently conquered" or "one of those we had to rescue from the Axanarians because they were too weak to help themselves". Either way he seems more like an exchange officer rather than seen as a UESPA/Starfleet officer. |
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Post by Falconer on Jul 27, 2020 14:18:48 GMT -5
Since it is a “Western,” I like the analogy of all Star Trek alien species as American Indians, and the ones in the Federation as maybe “ The Five Civilized Tribes”? (With the analogy not drawn out to all the more negative connotations, i.e., no Trail of Tears, etc.). |
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c57d
Lt. Commander
Posts: 169
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Post by c57d on Jul 27, 2020 16:21:09 GMT -5
Since it is a “Western,” I like the analogy of all Star Trek alien species as American Indians, and the ones in the Federation as maybe “ The Five Civilized Tribes”? (With the analogy not drawn out to all the more negative connotations, i.e., no Trail of Tears, etc.). Being from the UK I had to read up on this. However, I can see a correlation between this and the other members of the Federation. Just like these native tribes assumed and followed european practises in order to try to protect their long term future, so the Vulcans, Andorians, Tellarites, Deltans etc alligned their cultures closer to Terran norms and increasingly allied/federated with Earth as TOS continued. And I now better understand your previous analogy of Spock as Tonto. |
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Post by captainpike on Aug 2, 2020 19:44:20 GMT -5
I can't disagree with any of your observations about early TOS. I really like that era. My main disappointment with Discovery is not the storyline or character as such - it is that the show does not look or feel like early TOS.
That aside on the subject of UESPA, I assume it continues to exist after Starfleet becomes a thing and that the Enterprise was always a Starfleet vessel. It was just on a UESPA mission during its first season - like as USN ship might be collecting oceanographic data, or tasked with recovering a NASA space vehicle.
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c57d
Lt. Commander
Posts: 169
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Post by c57d on Aug 3, 2020 3:43:41 GMT -5
I can't disagree with any of your observations about early TOS. I really like that era. My main disappointment with Discovery is not the storyline or character as such - it is that the show does not look or feel like early TOS. That aside on the subject of UESPA, I assume it continues to exist after Starfleet becomes a thing and that the Enterprise was always a Starfleet vessel. It was just on a UESPA mission during its first season - like as USN ship might be collecting oceanographic data, or tasked with recovering a NASA space vehicle. I wasn't crazy about the overall look and the rumours of the fungus powered warp drive was vastly unappealing, but even so,I watched the first three or four episodes of Discovery. But it had already lost me when the Mary Sue character struck her captain and mutinied. So in keeping with TOS spirit!!! |
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Post by Falconer on Aug 3, 2020 14:51:50 GMT -5
Yeah, hard to imagine it in the same universe, for many reasons.
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c57d
Lt. Commander
Posts: 169
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Post by c57d on Aug 3, 2020 17:49:54 GMT -5
Yeah, hard to imagine it in the same universe, for many reasons. Totally. It felt so different that it seemed to me that it was just a generic scifi series with a few TOS names and tropes tacked on. The only truly Star Trek part was in the title -and thats all! Such a wasted opportunity - promising Prime Universe, twenty years before Kirk(and so Cage era)but delivering nothing even faintly like that! But even more painful and frustrating (imho) that it is now canon, and on some ST forums is even discussed as if it has priority over TOS since it is "earlier"!!!! (apologies for all the exclamation marks - better than cursing I guess?). |
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