Current LitVerse Ends; Things Picard Invalidates?

[Stan]

There's a lot of discussion about the current novel LitVerse coming to an end with the advent of the last Coda trilogy novel. The current post-Nemesis novel universe is now considered an alt-canon continuity called the "First Splinter."

Anyway, I've not watched any Picard or the last season of Discovery. Supposedly Picard invalidates a lot of prior Canon, but I'm not sure what.

Anyone seen Picard or the newer shows who can comment on what they've changed in Canon that would effect TOS era Canon?

I've enjoyed current LitVerse TOS novels, knowing that usually the only Canon difference (vs. T-Canon assumptions) I'll notice is having TNG bumpy head Klingons. Wondering if new TOS books written post-Picard are going to be different somehow and even more incompatible with Old School Trek novels.

[Falconer]

Personally, I classify all the new shows as I-Canon: irreconcilable with the future shown in TOS. What’s strange is that they pretend that, officially, they are all equally part of the same canon, as if Discovery and TOS portray the same universe. So I don’t know, I guess a novel about Kirk will tend to have the look-and-feel of TOS with just a few easter eggs from the rest of the franchise, whereas one about Pike will hew to SNW.

[aramis]

Dec 2, 2021 16:05:34 GMT -5 Falconer said:

Personally, I classify all the new shows as I-Canon: irreconcilable with the future shown in TOS. What’s strange is that they pretend that, officially, they are all equally part of the same canon, as if Discovery and TOS portray the same universe. So I don’t know, I guess a novel about Kirk will tend to have the look-and-feel of TOS with just a few easter eggs from the rest of the franchise, whereas one about Pike will hew to SNW.

They've been pretty consistent in calling them the "Prime" universe...
Prime doesn't always mean first; in math A' is not A, but the first derivative of A, and A'' is the second derivative, A''' third derivative, etc.
Prime in cases of many areas of commerce isn't "First" but "Best Quality" - and from a visual effects standard, indeed these Prime Universe shows are visual feasts.

I don't see Discovery as irreconcilable; only one issue really is a problem: Michael Burnham as Sarek's Ward and of similar age to Spock. We should have seen her in The Infinite Vulcan... and she's not there. Further, Seasons 3 and 4 are NOT before TOS. And we got to see Pike take the damage that ties right into TOS' The Menagerie.

I'll admit that Lower Decks is pretty much irreconcilable not due to timeline, but due to cartoon physics worse than TAS... The separable floating bodypart alien is from TAS and is in LD... but LD is set after Voyager ends and before Picard.

Picard, for its value, is only before Seasons 3+ of Discovery.

And Enterprise is the point where the visual look is incompatible...

One just has to make a few excuses...

Michael may have been away during TAS:TIV. Or Spock is several years older than Michael.

If you ignore the visuals, the timeline issues aren't a problem with Original Universe - only the look.
Remember, in Screen Canon, we only know that there was a war ended with the Treaty of Anaxar... until the Discovery S1 arcs.

We also know that Main Continuity was broken away from, or broken away to, the Enterprise timeline, thanks to the metaplot Temporal Cold War...

it could be very fun to examine the timelines
We have in TOS alone 2 timmeline changes that could make separate timeline planes/branes
TOS prior to TOS:TIY (1.19) which alters 1965
TOS:TIY to TOS: City on the edge of Forever... which alters 1932, perhaps only slightly
TOS:CotEoF to TOS:All Our Yesterdays... we don't know the knock-on effects of K/S/M
TOS:AOY to TAS:TIV (its Sequel!) Alters the timeline in Spock's Childhood

TNG gives us only a couple timeline benders... but Data in the 1800s and Tasha on the Ent C... Everything in TOS/TAS mmay have been altered by the 1800's bit.

DS9 gives us the Roswell Incident and a return to TOS:TTWT...
altering everything after those

Voy gives us a change in the 2020's Bell Riots.

Ent gives us more temporal mischief... and basically, by that point, anything TOS/TAS is already alternate universes...

So Discovery is probably in the post-Enterprise timeline-twisting brane.

And Strange New Worlds is going to be after that...

We don't have one timeline in TOS alone. Before accounting for Movies 4 and the TNG one with the borg,,,
which also alters the timeline further...

[TardisCaptain]

The Picard series itself doesn't really invalidate anything in the TOS television episodes IMHO. I think the reason for the Coda books is that the LitVerse before the new series had taken their own path on where they thought things would go. This was before they knew there would be new television series that could "mess things up" for them. So the Coda series is an attempt to align with what is on screen so that new readers, familiar with the new shows, don't get confused.

At least they gave a series of novels of why the changes were made instead of just coming out and saying "it's not beta-cannon* any more" like Disney did with the earlier Star Wars books.

* Beta-Cannon = events that happened in official licensed products. They may be later over-written by alpha (on screen) cannon. Beta-cannon items usually show up in the Memory Beta website.

[Falconer]

I don’t really want to get into the weeds on this, personally. It’s kind of interesting, but I don’t get the same thrill I get when thinking about and discussing TOS and the TOS-centric franchise and fandom, especially from the 70s and early 80s.

[Traveller]

Dec 2, 2021 19:34:34 GMT -5 TardisCaptain said:

TAt least they gave a series of novels of why the changes were made instead of just coming out and saying "it's not beta-cannon* any more" like Disney did with the earlier Star Wars books.

The following does NOT invalidate your belief that the Coda books were written to align the Star Trek novels with existing canon, and my post isn't about that particular aspect of your post. However, your comparison with the Star Wars EU is not really a valid comparison, because while both franchises take essentially the same view of their expanded universes as of the day I write this, they started off VERY differently.

Unlike Star Wars novels, Star Trek novels were never considered canon in any way, shape, or form. Paramount very early on made it clear that only what appeared on the small or large screens that was produced by them was canon. A book or other media's license status is irrelevant. The author or designer's affiliation with the franchise is also irrelevant. Books and media outside the TV shows and films are not canon. Period.

Disney's decision to declare the Expanded Universe/Legends Continuity as non-canon was simply so Disney could tell the stories they wanted without interference. Honestly, as much as I personally feel the Thrawn Trilogy was the true Episodes 7, 8, and 9, the reality is that Disney removing the Legends Continuity from canon greatly simplified the bookkeeping. I will admit to a lack of knowledge of whether the post-Disney Star Wars novels are considered part of that franchise's canon, but I believe they shouldn't be.

As to Discovery, Picard, or Strange New Worlds invalidating anything, it's very likely. Since the Star Trek novels are not canon, Paramount isn't beholden to respect them.