c57d
Lt. Commander
Posts: 169
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Post by c57d on Oct 10, 2022 20:00:57 GMT -5
Although I am a huge fan of the FASA game, I have always been critical of the Federation map, as presented in many of their publications, and have long wanted to drastically redraw it for any future campaigns I might run. As a proviso, I am wanting a pre-early TOS campaign and so am basing almost all of my assumptions on the Cage & TOS S1. A few references will come from S2 & 3 but these are an exception not the rule. My first two comments are, one, that I see the UFP, at that early time, to be an extremely loose alliance of existing polities and so my map will be 95% United Earth, with Vulcan, Andorian and Tellarite societies on some map edges. And that I intend that it follows the layout that appears on the Starfleet crest on the FASA character sheet. Each ring will be 5 parses thick and so the radius is 15 parsecs. I note that this allows for around 35 colonies, and, what I take to be 3 equidistantly placed Starbases. As such, this space will represent the "Core" world's, with outer worlds and other Starbases. I will then populate the worlds from a combination of the FASA Federation supplement lists and the planet's onscreen mention (so, Makus III, New Paris, Alpha V etc). That's enough for now, and I will plan out the first two races presence on this map, next - Vulcans and Romulans.
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Post by Falconer on Oct 10, 2022 23:48:42 GMT -5
Just curious if you have looked at Star Trek Maps and considered its idea of the “Original Boundary of Federation”?
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c57d
Lt. Commander
Posts: 169
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Post by c57d on Oct 11, 2022 4:41:05 GMT -5
I haven't looked at that book, since I am just planning United Earth space, not the entire (in my setting, not here yet) Federation. I see it like a flower with a central leaf (UE) irregularly ringed by three other leaves (Andorians, Tellarites & Vulcans), and loosely supporting and working with each other. I see TOS S1 & early S2 as the first stirrings of a more integrated and formal relation, which increases pace and is complete by TMP. At that point I would see a combined Federation space. On a more functional note, I have just noticed that my scale is off, and should be 10 parses per ring, and so 30 parses radius. More later.
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Post by Falconer on Oct 11, 2022 23:03:05 GMT -5
In the past year I have done an extensive analysis of both the distances and speeds given in TOS. Have adjusted my maps accordingly and have completely overhauled my warp factor scale accordingly. I came to some conclusions which I think are pretty well-supported, tangible, and have clear implications for gaming. Not to be too cryptic or to oversell it. I will share my work as soon as I can get to it, but if you have any questions let me know.
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c57d
Lt. Commander
Posts: 169
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Post by c57d on Oct 12, 2022 5:03:17 GMT -5
It sounds like you are ahead of me in this sort of project. I did a very rough spreadsheet showing the stardate advance from the end of one TOS S1 episode to the next (obviously in SD order). But, of course I neither know what speed the Enterprise travelled at, or how long stardates are! So, if you have been able to account for those restrictions, I would love to see anything you can share, please.
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Post by ThrorII on Oct 14, 2022 23:10:22 GMT -5
1. The writers guide implied that 1 stardate is one 24-hour period. 2. The writers guide also gave the familiar 'warp speed cubed times the speed of light' formula.
Neither was ever mentioned on screen. And the speeds given in the show contradict #2 above.
That being said, you need to decide if you want a 'large federation' or 'small federation'. If 'Large', then Falconer is correct, Star Trek Maps (from the 1970s) gives a very good layout in 3d. If 'small', I posted a sample 50-ly 'exploration zone' map a while ago (with a 20-ly Core Federation).
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Post by starcruiser on Oct 16, 2022 10:52:54 GMT -5
Yep - lots of evidence against the warp speed cubed speed rule - none that I'm aware of against the stardate being based on a 24 hour day.
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Post by Falconer on Oct 17, 2022 16:03:11 GMT -5
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Post by ThrorII on Oct 17, 2022 22:41:27 GMT -5
I just book marked it. Looking forward to more.
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Jack Photon
Lt. Commander
4.0th Fantaversary Revision FASA Framework House Rules now available!
Posts: 166
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Post by Jack Photon on Oct 20, 2022 8:44:34 GMT -5
Apart from 'the Maps', "Star Trek Maps" also has an in-depth treatise on warp speed values and how to account for the distance. ST Maps created Major and Minor Space Lanes, Traffic control protocols and all sorts of lively details for how intergalactic space must work. They also create validation for Jose Tyler's throw away line about breaking the time barrier in the 18yrs intervening the Columbia's disappearance and Enterprise finding them. They've done alot of concept work for you to base off of. Based on their work, I created a simple formula using gravimetric intensity and molecular density as multipliers to the base Warp cubed formula. If your bussards are in hydrogen-poor space, they aren't as efficient. If in hydrogen-rich space, they get clogged and aren't as efficient. Warp drive relies on local gravity density. Too heavy and you're burning the gasoline and too light and you're getting a head-wind. ST Maps have their own warp formula. For game purposes I translated each of those two values as 0.0 to 1.0 with the provisio that 0 is least ideal and 1 is most ideal. Too much gas/gravity or too little can easily share the same value of '0', while the goldilocks for each is 1. This gives a total multiplier of 0.0 to 2.0 on the rated warp speed, producing an 'effective' warp speed. Multiplier below 1, you're losing speed and running hot. Multiplier above 1 and you're saving money at the gas pump. Each number can be rolled on a 1d10 or chosen by the GM to suit the story needs. Typical Values I've assigned Total = (Gas + gravity) Major Space Lane 1.8 (0.9 + 0.9) Minor Space Lane 1.5 (0.7 + 0.8) Average Medium 1.1 (0.5 + 0.6) Nebula, Common 0.2 (0.2 + 0.0) Intergalactic 0.1 (0.01 + 0.09) I then tie it in to Skill Rolls. The Navigator can roll to determine the amount of legs they need to make course corrections for better/worse time. The Helm rolls to shave/add time by 'riding the throttle' and 'trimming the sails' as were, around variable-density space. Failed skill rolls add time, while successes shave it down. This formula allows for engines to burn hot at Warp 10 while remaining at a dead stand-still for the lack of hydrogen and/or intensity of nearby gravity well. Whereas that same Warp 10 could be hitting an 'effective' warp 20 for the improbably smooth-as-glass sailing they hit. A multiplier below 0.5 is getting close to 'dead space' and Saragasso Sea effects of dead winds and no current, stuck in a gyre. My full formula, work and reasoning is in my Jack Photon's 4.0th Fantaversary Revision, Book 2 Piece of the Action, Warp Factoring, page 143.
jackphoton.space
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Jack Photon
Lt. Commander
4.0th Fantaversary Revision FASA Framework House Rules now available!
Posts: 166
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Post by Jack Photon on Nov 30, 2023 22:33:38 GMT -5
I haven't looked at that book, since I am just planning United Earth space, not the entire (in my setting, not here yet) Federation. I see it like a flower with a central leaf (UE) irregularly ringed by three other leaves (Andorians, Tellarites & Vulcans), and loosely supporting and working with each other. I see TOS S1 & early S2 as the first stirrings of a more integrated and formal relation, which increases pace and is complete by TMP. At that point I would see a combined Federation space. On a more functional note, I have just noticed that my scale is off, and should be 10 parses per ring, and so 30 parses radius. More later. I'm of the same mind. With the Federation formed a hundred years earlier, actual fleet integration among the species has taken awhile. This gives us both the United Earth moniker and the All-Vulcan Intrepid. Thus there would be the United Andorian ships, Vulcans and Tellarites. I'll suppose the Alpha Centaurans are grouped in with the Earthers, but could have a "United Centauri Systems".
Integration between such disparate species would take awhile while they learn about each other. Thus in the earliest days, there might only be one representative on every several ships of another species. In later days, the integration would balance out so that somewhere in season 1/2 is when the United Federation of Planets becomes truly and officially United (integrated) so that by TMP (as you say), we see all the weirdos on 1701's Rec deck.
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