General Order 24

[Jack Photon]

"This is the commander of (your ship's name here). All cities and installations on (planet name goes here) have been located, identified, and fed into our fire-control system. In (given time limit), the entire inhabited surface of your planet will be destroyed. You have that long to (comply with your stated demand spoken here)."

I'm posting this across forums in hopes to catch all opinions.

What is the justification for GO24... It could be a very elaborate bluff that surprises even Uhura. Could be. We'll go with legit order to obliterate a planetary surface, killing every last living inhabitant. It's called 'genocide' even in Star Trek's time. Maybe even worse, terracide for the unprecedented devastation.

The UFP Council and SFC have decided it's better to wipe a world out, than isolate it or otherwise avoid, hamstring or foul-up any given space-faring society. Given, Eminiar is highly advanced, are able to pre-determine transporter arrival coordinates before beaming commences suggesting they can isolate transporter scanners and focuser beams or whatever. They have disintigration booths and powerful disruptor weapons and a high personal sense of duty. They are not warp capable. They mathematically materialize cobalt bombs at planetary distances, can they replicate that in real life?

In this one instance, Kirk calls GO24. Eminiar is not exactly a weakling in this case having already destroyed one starship 50 years previous with planetary defenses and offensive capabilities. This is likely a constraint as GO 24 cannot likely be called on harmless inhabitants throwing rocks as perhaps Garth did against Antos when his crew mutineed. But it's not like the people of Eminiar have much choice in the matter. and deserve obliteration even though their fate is likely the booth anyway.

What is the scenario that justifies GO24 from benevolent, tree-hugging utopian Federation? Or rather, what does the wording look like that specifies the guidelines?
Eminiar is: a space faring race that poses an imminent threat to Federation space lanes and promises to continue such threat without remorse.

What other possibilities are there? What are the consequences of failure? If the ship is destroyed or fails to complete its mission of destruction, that race would be justified in waging war vs. UFP. What are war crime potentials? Eminiar is clearly not prime directive qualifier by any means.

[starcruiser]

I would first expect that GO24 would be a very, very last resort...in any case.

If you ran into a Borg-like race bent on forcing everyone to become Borg (Cybermen etc...) - that might be justified.

If you ran into any other destruction oriented race bent on conquest and simply unable/unwilling to listen to reason - might also be justified...

[c57d]

Or... Just..... Maybe.... Kirk was engaging in a "Corbomite" style bluff (and there really is no GO24)??

[Jack Photon]

Sept 7, 2023 3:12:52 GMT -5 c57d said:

Or... Just..... Maybe.... Kirk was engaging in a "Corbomite" style bluff (and there really is no GO24)??

It would be nice to think that.
However...

One. Watch Uhura's genuine reaction on Scott speaking the words. She is either so shocked that Scotty would actually do it, or not in the know despite being comm chief who regularly sees INT communiques and such. 

Now, when Kirk called GO24, the bridge action should have included Scott telling Sulu and Chekov to map all facilities and lock them into the targeting computer -or just told the targeting computer to do it itself hereby absolving the people of the duty and burden of guilt.  (Would Sulu and Chekov be in the know as they are the gunners?)  Everyone present should have heard Scotty's order.  Uhura's surprise is therefore not valid when shown. Her shock would have happened during this not-shown-on-tv time period.  Being a drama, they moved the action to the appropriate shot to emphasize the disbelief -and discongruity to the norm of peace-loving Feds.

All this suggests GO24 is not known by lower ranks until they hear it given. I don't know if that makes sense. Uhura's reaction cannot be discounted.

Two. Ok, it's a bluff. At the end of Kirk's 2hrs, Scott calls back and says they were just playing foolies. Eminiar doesn't have to release their hostages and Scott will beam the entire crew down for execution. Or Scott leaves Kirk & crew behind -who would have been executed a few minutes earlier.

Co-written by Gene L. Coon and Dir by Pevney, these two veterans knew their show.

GO24 appears to be no bluff.

It's consequence is total destruction of the inhabited surface of a given world.

[starcruiser]

I would assume that Starfleet ran into some situation - somewhere in the not so distant past - that led to the perceived need for GO24.

Maybe that could serve as a interesting story possibility in itself. Some alien threat so terrible that Starfleet had to resort to an extreme solution.

[Jack Photon]

It's pretty far down the list too. Talos is GO 6 (7?) in the 2050's.

Presumably General Orders are created in order, not slotted into a pre-existing diagram that leaves holes in the sequence. (Skipping 09 while listing 08 and 10.) Presumably GO 24 followed the creation of GO 23 in temporal order or several may have been batched out of one incident.

Granted, the writing duo just as much grabbed a number out of the air. '24' sounded better than 12, maybe. Sounds more weighty, perhaps. Whatever their reason for the number, we get to make it work if possible.

We now have the perhaps GO 24 is very recent and was so morally and ethically overwhelming as to impose nothing less than complete terracide.

Maybe it's a lesson learned from the Andorians. It is signed off on by the Vulcans. Enemies can incorrectly apply it as a cudgel to justify their atrocities.

[Falconer]

We have another thread about General Orders:
oldschooltrek.proboards.com/thread/697/starfleet-general-orders

LUG’s TOS Core Book (p. 12) has an idea for the origins of GO-24:

“The Enterprise’s survey of the planet Eridios nearly led to total disaster. The Enterprise’s warp signature created powerful resonance waves within the crust of Eridios, composed of a dilithium-kemacite crystalline matrix. Only Pike’s quick-thinking order to vaporize the surface of the planet with the ship’s weapons prevented Eridios’ crustal matrix from ripping apart all of spacetime. Even now, temporal rifts remain common in the Eridios system. Although no ship has discovered any other such planet, Pike’s General Order 24 remains on the books just in case.”

I was thinking along similar lines, of a planet containing some kind of parasite that could endanger the whole galaxy and would be worthwhile obliterating. It’s a slippery slope but a call a Captain sometimes has to make, I suppose.

[Jack Photon]

Thanks for the link, Falconer. A good read and overall discussion. LUGs description here leaves me wanting and despondent. lolz. It's always the Enterprise. It's always all of space time will destroyed or galactic cataclysm by the blah-blahs.

Your take is better with the parasite, but leaves me lacking. All that's needed is one single parasite to survive to render GO24 completely ineffective.

The other descriptions in the other thread stating Captain and above doesn't totally jibe even though it was Kirk's order to Scott, it is still Scott pulling the trigger, not Kirk. I guess in military terms that is irrelevant and more a relative moralism thing.

Historically, the Kzinti are unrepentant thugs that murder or enslave every last human and others. But they were also a one-off story hook, so can't be taken as a case example. Same fo the Skorr being able to breed 200 billion warriors in a few short years... The klingons are too big and strong to simply bully around.

The crustal tides and parasitic infection hypotheses don't address eliminating all brain-bearing lifeforms. sapient or otherwise.

I suppose this is an empty pursuit, more mental puzzle solver brain twister than anything important.

My best guess, some belligerent, fast growing sentient threat which promises unrepentant and destructive behavior. Eminiar 7 promises to destroy all ships that happen to fall into their sphere of influence. Ambasssador Fox's concern that "thousands of lives over the last 20years have been lost in this quadrant. Lives that could have been saved if the Federation had a treaty port here." Fox is willing to involve the ship in an interplanetary war to get that peace treaty.
We have the Valiant, 50yrs ago and thousands of lives in the last 20yrs. The thousands of lives were forgotten about I guess "Look Anan, just as it happened 50yrs ago." Not, "Look Anon, another one just like last week."

Television writers.

[blackbat242]

It seems to me that GO 24 is about wiping a planet to prevent that planet's population from attacking/infecting/causing mass casualties to other planets (cutting off a gangrenous appendage to save the rest of the organism).

[Jack Photon]

Absolutely, Blackbat. That the morally, ethically advanced, super-intelligent beings of the Federation cannot come up with a viable alternative is the surprising thing to me.

Looking into it further, the first issue of Gold Key Comics, "The KG planet" (or similarly titled) has Spock phasering the entire planet at the end saying no spores can ever be allowed to escape as the intelligent plant life would consume the galaxy (or similar conclusion). Gold Key was written after the show was going, so this story would have to be ret-conned into various justifications. (If i understand the term "retcon" correctly. I've never used it in a sentence before or heard a particular definition.)

And this harkens back to Falconer's post on parasites and LUGs reasoning that had left me lacking. Parasites and spores fit the bill. My problem is they are so small that there would be no way to ensure their destruction by mass phaser/torpedo fire. The air, the water, the soil, the geoligical history or freeze/thaw cycles. Even the Death Star would not ensure total destruction as debris will fly through space forever until it hits something.

Unrepentant Eminiar/Vendikar fits the destruction bill. I suppose this wasn't done to the unrepentant KZin as they are so much weaker and frankly, stupider than humans. KZin appear to be the kind of enemy you can keep at bay by simply putting your palm on their forehead while they flail away at you and missing with every swipe. While Eminiar/Vendikar are localized to their system, they just about assure the destruction of any who stray by -as referred to by Ambassador Fox with thousands of lives lost over the last 20yrs.

Even in an idealized fictional the good guys still resort to seemingly horrific stratagems.

[starcruiser]

Unless...it was always meant as a bluff. Used very sparingly...

[Jack Photon]

And when the bluff gets called?

Per my previous post...
Ok, it's a bluff. At the end of Kirk's 2hrs, Scott calls back and says they were just playing foolies. Eminiar doesn't have to release their hostages and Scott will beam the entire crew down for execution. Or Scott leaves Kirk & crew behind -who would have been executed a few minutes earlier.
---

So Scotty leaves having been bluffed; with Kirk, crew and Ambassador having been executed and Eminiar is consequence free to keep killing thousands of Federation "lives that would have been saved with a treaty port". Eminiar now knows the Federation will bluff total annihilation and balk. The Federation returns again with the same mission and ... Eminiar calls the bluff again?

The consequences to bluffing Balok was the destruction of 1701. The consequences to bluffing Eminiar is showing the entire Federation is weak-willed and easily thwarted. Once Eminiar knows, others will eventually know.

The consequences to a called bluff are too great for it to be anything other than a sincere promise.