Ideas for Second Edition

[gorillaspawn]

Hi all, I thought I'd post here to see if people want to help brainstorm about a second edition of S&S. Note that I'm backed up with other stuff so real development on this won't begin for a long time yet. Originally what I envisioned was a 2e that was fully compatible with Labyrinth Lord, Mutant Future, etc. As i think more about it though I'm wondering if a different path should be chosen. With D&D variants coming out all time, such as Stars Without Number and X-Plorers, etc. this kind of D&D in space approach is already becoming saturated and probably will continue that way.

So one thing I've been thinking about is rather than move to completely gut most of the system a revised edition instead might just clarify a few things, revise a few things to try to make them easier to play/understand, and flesh out "gaps" in the rules--basically a revision and expansion of the game, not a total overhaul. It would still retain its unique elements but beefed up a bit.

Thoughts?

[aramis]

I'd likely not buy a Labyrinth Lord/Mutant Future version, myself.

That said...
Want List:

• More ships.
  • Give a large freighter (BC sized).
  • Give full stat blocks for all included ships.
  • Include the Zangid BB (it's in Star Explorer... so it should be in the core).
• add a third enemy race with an additional weapon system
  
• Add a few more classes:
  • Planetary Sciences Specialist
  • Merchant Purser
  
  
• expand the gear list.
  
• use the computer rules for sensor detail scans, as well.
  
• adjust the power costs for things to make more sense. (See my house rules for what I like.)
  
• More advice on creating a sector, and on missions.
  
• PDF and/or POD edition of the companion game, Star Explorer (I suspect Doug Bonaforte and Leonard would go for it)... it also has a great mission generator.
  
• Make space encounter pre-detection chances based upon stats, rather than flat rates
  
• Rationalize the space encounters table a bit for use in premapped areas.

If you use any of my house rules, all I ask is credit in the credits, and a PDF copy of the release.

[grif]

Well, here's my try - I don't pretend that this is perfect, but these rules should help players to play approximate equivalents to certain characters from a certain TV show:

Hybrids in Starships and Spacemen

By

Griffith Ingram

It is a curious feature of space opera that people from planets light years apart, and from different evolutionary origins, can find each other sufficiently attractive to fall in love, marry, and have children. A certain television series, for example, in its several incarnations, has a number of characters whose parents hail from different planets, and the way in which such characters exemplify or reject either side of their mixed heritage makes for excellent drama. This article presents methods in incorporating such characters into the Starships and Spacemen RPG.

Characters should be rolled up as normal, using one of the three methods in the rulebook. The decision should then be taken as to which mixed heritage the character is to have, then the following modifications should be made to attribute scores.

Terran/Tauran Hybrid:

Male: Subtract 1 from Charisma
Add 1 to Intelligence and Strength
Add 1 to Technical Skill
Psionic Potential Base: 2

Female: Add 1 to Strength
Add 1 to Contact Skill
Psionic Potential Base: 5

The prototype for this character heritage is a certain Science Officer. Terran/Tauran Hybrids often struggle to suppress their emotions and live up to the Tauran tradition; however, some of them reject this repression and tend more towards the Terran side of their heritage. As they mature, they often become more comfortable with their dual cultural inheritance. Terran/Tauran Hybrids are still subject to the Tauran two-year mating urge.

Terran/Zangid Hybrid:

Players wishing to have this type of character should use the Rigel attribute modifications in the rulebook. The prototype for this character heritage is a certain Chief Engineer. Terran/Zangid Hybrids have difficulty in controlling their tempers, and often seem rather volatile to their fellow crew members.

Terran/Zangid/Terran Hybrid:

Male and Female: Add 1 to Marksmanship and Strength
Loyalty Base: 7
Psionic Potential Base: -2

The prototype for this character heritage is the daughter of a certain Chief Engineer and a Navigator.

Tauran/Videni Hybrid:

Players wishing to have this type of character should use the Terran/Tauran Hybrid attribute modifications above. The prototype for this character heritage is a certain Science Officer. Tauran/Videni Hybrids are often the product of rape or unethical breeding experiments, and, when attempts are made to bring them up in the Tauran tradition, they have to struggle to suppress their emotions.

Terran/ Videni Hybrid:
No modifications to the Terran template. Terran/ Videni Hybrids in Spacefleet are often ashamed of their heritage, and attempt to conceal it, rendering them vulnerable to blackmail.

Zangid Player Characters:

Male: Subtract 2 from Technical Skill and Contact Skill
Add 4 to Marksmanship and Strength

Female: Subtract 2 from Technical Skill and Contact Skill
Add 4 to Marksmanship
Add 2 to Strength

The prototype for this character heritage is a certain Security Officer. Zangids in Spacefleet have often been brought up by humans, and have great difficulty in controlling their urges towards violence, but are very loyal to their friends, and hold to their own notions of honour.

Because of their mixed heritage, cultural as well as genetic, hybrids can be of any character class. I hope that players enjoy these rules – I make no claim as to their perfection, so, if you disagree on any point - change it!

Grif

[Falconer]

Since I finally got myself a physical copy, I’ve been doing a thorough re-read of Starships & Spacemen, and I have to say, I am once again VERY impressed with this game. Stars Without Number and X-Plorers really have no advantage to offer the “D&D in space” gamer over S&S — especially when it comes to an intentionally TOS-style game. It seems backward to say this, but this is an OLD game that reads like it could have been designed by the OSR! Know what I mean? I find it thorough, flavorful, and innovative to just the right degree. It can be played right out of the box and doesn’t need tinkering.

So I really don’t think the core rules need any tinkering. I would ideally love to see four things:

1) A “second edition” of the S&S rulebook with NO textual changes, but with COMPLETELY redone layout and LOTS of art directly evoking TOS (without breaking any trademarks!).

2) Star Explorer … sounds like this is happening!

3) A Starmaster’s Guide full of new planet concepts and/or generators, creatures and plants, equipment, ships, stations, deck plans, star charts, scenarios/missions, etc. Lots of art, again. How to use SE with S&S.

4) More pimping of S&S … probably around the time the next movie comes out, know what I mean?

[gorillaspawn]

I agree--it's a great game with many very interesting components. The way the classes and starship rules are handled, for me, are the best and most eye-opening. I think what I've decided to do is go in both directions so that i can appeal to two different audiences who would be interested in S&S. I'll go ahead with a completely new edition compatible with LL/MF but I'll also do a revision of the original rules with all new art.

Here is what I mean by revised. I think that the material from the expansion pack needs to be integrated seamlessly into the text. I also think some of the organization could be altered so that it is less confusing (for example, put all discussion of psionics in one place). I also like some of the suggestions Aramis has offered.

Anyway, these are my thoughts at the moment.

[blackbat242]

The LL/MF version would be useless to me, but an Expanded Starships and Spacemen would interest me.

Aramis' ideas look good.

I definitely like Falconer's suggestions... perhaps a 3-part book (or 3 books issued together) with ES&S, Star Explorer, and the Complete Starmaster's Guide sections.

[Falconer]

Dan, since, as I said, I already feel like S&S gets “D&D in space” right, I guess I just can’t visualize what exactly would change in the Labyrith Lordicization. Can you give us some examples?

[gorillaspawn]

Aug 31, 2011 11:55:39 GMT -5 Falconer said:

Dan, since, as I said, I already feel like S&S gets “D&D in space” right, I guess I just can’t visualize what exactly would change in the Labyrith Lordicization. Can you give us some examples?

Sure, but keep in mind I'm thinking of two versions. The audience for a "Labyrinth Lordized" version will be much much larger, and worth doing. It would probably subsidize the artwork for the original version.

Essentially a lot of the core structure of classes will remain the same, but the bonuses to certain activities will be translated into LL terms. So for example, when contacting alien races a reaction adjustment bonus would be given in sentient contact. There will be otherbonuses depending on class applied to other subsystems that don't exist in original S&S. Rules for movement, rounds, etc., would be in LL terms. Psionics would function as in MF and Realms of Crawling Chaos. Monsters would be more defined, following the LL format, but also possibly including tables for random generation of different types.

So I'm looking at overall compatibility and adding the product line to the existing lineup of LL/MF. I don't think this will detract at all from the original version. I think it will be fun, and a good way to expand the S&S property. We have to accept that the original S&S has a very small fanbase, and if some people try out the Labyrinth Lordized version as a gateway and then decide to go with the original I think it is win win.

[Falconer]

Okay, that sounds cool. I’m not much of a rules wonk, so I probably won’t notice the difference, but I’ll definitely check it out.