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Post by Falconer on Feb 10, 2011 11:42:57 GMT -5
Is it absolutely mandatory to use the metric system in a Sci-Fi RPG? Why or why not?
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Post by aramis on Feb 10, 2011 18:49:00 GMT -5
Not properly called "Metric"... it's properly System Internacional, or SI.
Absolutely? no. Sensible? Yes.
While not overly comfortable with SI, SI is the default standard for 90% of the world...
English Traditional will only go to space if the US can cure it's cranio-rectal insertion.
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Post by blackbat242 on Feb 11, 2011 2:58:01 GMT -5
NASA already uses "SI" primarily, if not exclusively.
When I was in the USMC in the 1980s, "SI" as used in US military official documents, equipment & technical specifications, etc as much or more than "English" measurements... and the use of "SI" has only increased since then.
Basically, any SFRPG using our current reality as a starting point for a setting where humans are a significant factor will use "SI".
If the setting has humans as a minority or client/subject to an alien species, then that species' measurement system would be appropriate for use.
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Post by Falconer on Feb 11, 2011 16:35:04 GMT -5
On March 29, 2010, NASA decided to avoid making its new Constellation rocket system metric-compliant. It predicted that it would cost $368 million to convert to metric measurements for parts made by both NASA and external companies. Constellation would have borrowed technology from the 1970s-era Space Shuttle program (which used non-metric measurements in software and hardware). See The Constellation Program’s Request to Discontinue Using the Metric System of Measurement, including the footnote that states: “On February 1, 2010, the President released his proposed fiscal year (FY) 2011 budget for NASA. In that budget request, the President proposed cancelling the Constellation Program. While the focus of this audit is on the Constellation Program’s specific request for an exception to NASA’s policy requiring use of the metric system, the issues discussed in this audit affect other Agency programs and broader policy issues.” Also, you could argue that a unit like “a foot” is something we would theoretically hold roughly in common with other humanoid races, such as humanity’s primary allies: Vulcans, Andorians, and Tellarites. That said, my main point was not to test the realism of using one system or the other, but the gameability. Of course, if it strains believability too much to not use the metric system, then it should be used. However, I imagine most people just know what they know, and don’t think about the fact of the inevitability of switching to the metric system (if, indeed, it is inevitable). Besides, believability is hardly the point in a universe in which every humanoid speaks English!
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Post by aramis on Feb 11, 2011 19:37:03 GMT -5
The problem with ETM (English Traditional Measure) is that of mathematics. We are not teaching the correct base.
We teach base 10. Our computers use base 2, converting to base 10.
ETM is functionally base 2 for volumes and many distances. It's just not CONSISTENT in that.
It's also not readily interrelated in volume, energy, force, mass, temperature
The kg/m/s units correlations make the physics easier to remember.
ETM, however, is also easier for people to use for common tasks. 3 hands to the foot, 4 inches a hand. 3 feet to the yard, 2 yards to the pace. 8 fl.oz. to the cup, 2 cups to the pint, two pints to the quart, 4 quarts to the gallon... Useful measures all. Measures that we can teach people by inference.
Alien feet, cups, and pounds are likely to measure up differently... but be similar in origin. Heck, ETM matches up in unit names exactly to Japanese traditional measure... but the actual measures are different.
Shaku: "measure" about 11.93", 30.3cm. Also called the "Japanese Foot" ken: 6 shaku kin: 1.323 pounds or almost exactly 600 grams kwan: 6.25 kin. (25kin=4kwan) ri: 2160 ken or 12 960 shaku; about 3927 meters or 2.44 statute miles
go: about 180.39 milliliters, 0.3812 U.S. pint, or 0.3174 British Imperial pint. .one man's helping's worth of dry rice. sho: 1.8039 liter to: equals 10 sho, which is about 18.039 liters koku: about 180.391 liters (39.68 British Imperial gallons or 6.37 cubic feet). 1 man's rice for a year. 10 to, or 100 sho, or about 1000 go. (3 servings a day of rice is 1095 go; allow for slightly underfilled go, and family servings being slightly less...)
Tatami or Jo: 1/2 square shako. Tatami is also the name of the 1 ken by 1/2 ken mat traditionally used in covering japanese floors.
Such systems of traditional measure are almost all falling to SI... because SI, while harder to teach the initial unit set, makes teaching science and engineering easier, and the relationships unit-type to unit-type easier to memorize. The Tatami, however, and the ken, hold on, due to buildings being built to them to match tatami mats, and tatami mats being built to match the ken. The US Foot, Mile, and Gallon hold on because of highway infrastructures.
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Post by Falconer on Feb 14, 2011 13:05:43 GMT -5
That’s very interesting.
I guess I was just thinking of basic planetside adventure issues. Like, "this hand phaser can shoot 40 feet." Or if you’re doing a "dungeon crawl" aboard a Romulan KR. It would be natural for my players if we lapsed into D&D-style mapping conventions (10 foot wide, 10 foot high corridors and doors, movement in 10 foot increments which equal one square on graph paper, etc.). What would be a better alternative?
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Post by blackbat242 on Feb 15, 2011 0:55:22 GMT -5
3 meters = 9' 10.11".
Therefore, just say "3 meters = 1 square" and you will be right there!
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Post by finarvyn on Feb 15, 2011 22:57:36 GMT -5
I think that there is a key assumption that eventually the United States will get smart and move on to the metric system in order to join the rest of the world, and as such a future game ought to reflect that probable evolution. Metric works best for SciFi.
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Post by aramis on Feb 16, 2011 3:09:43 GMT -5
I think that there is a key assumption that eventually the United States will get smart and move on to the metric system in order to join the rest of the world, and as such a future game ought to reflect that probable evolution. Metric works best for SciFi. Key word: Assumption. Unless and until the variety of state standards are changed, SI will remain trivialized in general US use. In Alaska, it's covered starting in about 3rd grade, while ETM is started in kindergarden. Serious work with SI only starts in middle school (gr 6-8 in AK)... and mainly in science class.
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Post by apeloverage on Apr 3, 2011 10:38:49 GMT -5
The crew of the Enterprise aren't meant to be all American though (even though the actors mostly were).
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Post by aramis on Apr 4, 2011 16:42:10 GMT -5
The crew of the Enterprise aren't meant to be all American though (even though the actors mostly were). Jimmy and Bill were/are Canooks...
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Post by jeff on Apr 5, 2011 10:43:38 GMT -5
What's funny is that the one actor born in Africa (DS9's Alexander Siddig) played a British Arab.
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Post by semajkhan on Jul 7, 2011 13:34:07 GMT -5
First post here.
I think it depends on the nature of the space faring culture.
A progressive and science oriented culture, like the Federation would use SI because it's easier to remember, easier to multiply and divide, and more accurate.
A conquering culture, such as the Klingons, would probably use a more culture-based and traditionalist system of measurement (akin to British Imperial) since its roots would be based in its history and traditions.
A mitigating factor, of course, would be the technology involved. In Star Trek, we see that the computers are not binary based, but duotronic based and would probably have a different approach to handling numbers. We can only guess here. It's possible that a space faring culture might develop a whole new system of measurement that would go hand in hand with its tech and the three dimensional nature of space travel.
But, if you noticed, Star Trek used SI to measure short distances.
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Post by aramis on Jul 8, 2011 1:57:36 GMT -5
Duotronics are still binary based. They use additional types of TTL gate units, apparently (and a 4th was just real-world developed - the Memristor), with possibly neural interface units... tho they respond quite like the recent Jeopardy bot, but with much more data and a better search system.
We also see that it takes alien influence and upgrades to alter that pattern. (In TOS, TAS and TNG...)
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