Star Fleet Uniforms as Armor

[Stan]

What do you think about the notion in GURPS Prime Directive (and other Prime Directive editions I’d guess) that Star Fleet uniforms are actually high-tech (made of a material called Monocrys) and provide a level of armor protection?

Prime Directive says “This explains why television characters just wore their everyday uniforms into harm's way.” I do think it mechanically solves a lot of problems to include this mechanic in an RPG (I'm considering using something like this in a game I'm designing).

Have other licensed Star Trek games do this?

How do you feel about uniforms-as-armor?

[Side note: The uniforms in Prime Directive also (1) provide protection from fire, (2) repel water, dirt and grime, and they dry in 1/5 the normal time, (3) change porosity In differing temperature and humidity conditions to help keep its wearer comfortable, (4) provide some resistance to chemical and biological agents, and (5) act to break up the wearer's infrared signature.]

[Falconer]

I totally dig it! Nice find. We have speculated about this before, but I have never seen it formally stated in a RPG.

[ThrorII]

Gold Shirt: Armor Class -10
Blue Shirt: Armor Class 2
Red Shirt: Armor Class 10

[aramis]

Jan 25, 2022 20:52:37 GMT -5 Stan said:

What do you think about the notion in GURPS Prime Directive (and other Prime Directive editions I’d guess) that Star Fleet uniforms are actually high-tech (made of a material called Monocrys) and provide a level of armor protection?

Prime Directive says “This explains why television characters just wore their everyday uniforms into harm's way.” I do think it mechanically solves a lot of problems to include this mechanic in an RPG (I'm considering using something like this in a game I'm designing).

Have other licensed Star Trek games do this?

How do you feel about uniforms-as-armor?

[Side note: The uniforms in Prime Directive also (1) provide protection from fire, (2) repel water, dirt and grime, and they dry in 1/5 the normal time, (3) change porosity In differing temperature and humidity conditions to help keep its wearer comfortable, (4) provide some resistance to chemical and biological agents, and (5) act to break up the wearer's infrared signature.]

I think the Committee is stoned.

That said, under uniform armor? definitely a thing. The standard duty uniform as armor? Not a bloody chance with the way Kirk's constantly get ripped.

90% of starfleet don't need armor. the 10% who do don't need it as the shipboard duty uniform when not actually on duty.

Armor isn't as durable as normal clothing in terms of retaining its essential functional properties; overwearing it reduces its lifespan as armor.

And, based upon screened eps, if it is armor, it's not very effective.

[Jack Photon]

Spock's Lirpa, Thelev's dagger, Kirk's sleeve rip by McCoy in Naked Time and so many more instances flatly contradict the notion the fabric provides any relevant 'armor'. protection in the classical definition of armor. 

At best and described for decades, the clothing is rip/tear resistant, provides thermal protection and generally doesn't stain, wrinkle and so on. - At best.   At worst, it's normal fabric.   Left out of the show (but written into the concept and writer's guides) was that the orange fabric of sickbay and various chairs was actually a sensor web that would read your vitals.  Lay on the sickbay bed and the monitor automatically pops on above it.  All the fabric in the show is future space fabric, but to what degree...

To me, the reason there is no armor in TOS is that was not the mindset of the producers and writers, nor of the Federation. The characters are exceptionally trusting and come from a time that is now lost to us in this modern era. Kor tells us the Klingons are strong as they are always under surveillance. Ubiquitous cameras are anti-thetical to a free society.   Where's the security guards on the 1701? Why are so many areas left vulnerable?  How can Khan and other guests simply read all the tech manuals of the ship?   Day of the Dove shows Scotty concerned the klingons can now access their data. Sounds like apart from self-destruct, the computers don't have a password or authentication for critical information and everyone has free access.

Simply put, by any measurable standard there are gaping security flaws on starfleet's finest vessels, there is no personal armor, there are no cameras everywhere because that used to reflect America -when people didn't have to lock their doors at night, when home windows didn't have security bars, when your every move wasn't tracked by the modern corporate stasi and sold to every bidder with a dollar in hand.

Now, how to to justify all that 60's mindset into modern reality where everyone is paranoid and watching each other with a factual form of big brother in the here and now? I dunno. Trek had the eugenics war to straighten them out. We've got a very bad cyberpunk situation in our real world and our star trek future is dead as far as I can tell.

As a TOS GM, you have to reinforce the 60's mindset into things.  1701 computer functions and abilities as compared to a modern cell phone is but one example of the headspace that needs wrapping around. Satellite imagery alone and data overlays...  Players will say, well I can do this today, why can't my character in 200 years from now?  Well, that's just not the way it works is all there is to say. And that is kinda lame.  Retro-fururism.

Back to armor, introducing it in TMP was a mistake for the silliness of the look and the function.

[Falconer]

Great post. I have often felt that the 60s Star Trek vision of the future is the brightest vision of the future, and rather than project present-day realities or values onto the future, I’d like to see that TOS future actually come about, even if it means the return of certain things that we currently see as backward or dated.

[aramis]

Jan 25, 2022 20:52:37 GMT -5 Stan said:

What do you think about the notion in GURPS Prime Directive (and other Prime Directive editions I’d guess) that Star Fleet uniforms are actually high-tech (made of a material called Monocrys) and provide a level of armor protection?

Prime Directive says “This explains why television characters just wore their everyday uniforms into harm's way.” I do think it mechanically solves a lot of problems to include this mechanic in an RPG (I'm considering using something like this in a game I'm designing).

Note that it originates in PD1... but much heavier armors are available. SVC has a hate on for PD1, but after enough badgering, he realized there was some money in selling the PDFs to its fans.

Not enough to support converting new GPD material...

anyway, the uniform is REALLY low armor in PD1; I don't recall GPD well (I bought it dead tree and hated it), but in PD1...

Body Sock - Light (AKA Light Field Armor - the under the tunic) 1-1-0 but action/initiative difficulty +0/0/0
Std 2-2-1 and +0/2/3 - gets better and lighter as the years increase
Heaviest body sock is 3-3-2 & +1/3/5.

It feels right for the SFU, but not for proper trek. Especially not with the Kirk and M'Benga Ripped Shirt Club.... (THis week's Strange New Worlds, M'benga is the one with the ripped shirt - from a laser scalpel...)

[Jack Photon]

Skipping around youtube I happened upon a few sentences from one guy on one of the new trek games and uniforms. His gist was starfleet is essentially beaming down in their pajamas as they are so excited by 'the new' they can't even get dressed. lolz.

SF Personnel are trusting. They don't want to appear as a threat to anyone they meet, but are always ready to defend themselves if attacked and will retreat at every possible opportunity. The starfleet officer prefers to hide and talk than fight, but is ready to die for or fight to the death as warranted.

Beam down in power armor and you are going to instill fear in all you meet if not for the unnatural/supernatural appearance this presents. To me, this is the mentality of cowards. Beam down in your pajamas and you're a possible friend. This to me is bravery. And if you try something sneaky on those new pajama'd 'friends', you get phaser-one'd to sleep -waking up alone and feeling awfully sick for awhile.

[c57d]

I have always assummed that against such weapons as phasers and disriptors, armour is of limited utility. You maybe could kit Starfleet with some effective armour, but it would be hulking and slow.
And not exactly "we come in peace"

[Stan]

My current houserule in my Star Trek games using the 24XX game system is that starfleet uniforms have a high-tech weave and can soak one hit. Once hit it is 'broken' (and you'll see a torn or ripped uniform on them at this point). After that the uniform does nothing. I like this because it reinforces the torn clothes trope.

[Jack Photon]

What does "soak one hit" mean? energy weapon? ballistic? Blades? Punches? Kicks?

If energy, why isn't exposed skin affected in full leaving a nice clean uniform pressed and ready on the floor after a fresh disintigration?


Game mechanically, I never considered it for myself even going into armor damage in AD&D as the next closest allegory. In star trek's case, it sounds like a token number of hit points for uniforms or a one-shot effect amounts to not being sucker-punched in the gut or negating a single kick to the shins. Is it the whole uniform that absorbs damage? Pants are separate from shirt? Skirts and stockings have less protection? Work jumpers? Dress uniforms? How does that translate to the silver spacesuits? DIfferent ers have different values, from Cage to STTUC?

From Enemy within, we see Sulu and co. starting to shiver at 20 below zero. He's just getting under a blanket at 40 below but still not 'suffering' for the standard dress and jumpers they are wearing. Sulu has drained one of four phasers at 75 below and each huddled under a blanket, shivering, but not 'freezing' for -75. Finally at -117°, Sulu seems to be genuinely affected by the cold. At last! holy cow. Note that 117 below 0°c = -178°f. ST speaks both metric and imperial as needed, so we don't know.

Regardless, those uniforms are doing something to help.

They probably self-clean. They resist if not seal small tears, but not deliberate rips such as McCoy in Naked Time. Maybe the uniform stopped Spock's first lirpa hit which was out of ccamera for us to see happen and then we see the actual slice across kirk's chest...

It's one of those things that you can say yea and nay to depending. FASA stat'd out the TMP armor, but i totally forget those details.

[Stan]

Sept 22, 2023 0:32:30 GMT -5 Jack Photon said:

What does "soak one hit" mean? energy weapon? ballistic? Blades? Punches? Kicks?

Yes, all of the above. But this is within the context of the 24XX game system mechanics, not Prime Directive.

You can see the rull rules here roguecomet.itch.io/federation-24xx

24XX is more of a narrative game and not so much a physics simulator.

[Jack Photon]

I can see how soak one hit in a given context can be so different.  It gets over-complicated in a system like FASA or others.

As a side note to my previous comment, just watching Amok Time now. First blow is stick to stick, second blow slices Kirk open with the distinct sound of a slit. Though there was a McCoy cut-away the sounds indicate no extra out of camera hits. That Lirpa gave no regard to nothing. Kirk is instantly off to a bad time, though he gets a couple token blows in for a time.

Looking at it now, the Lirpa is a seriously fearsome pole arm. I'm surprised our real spear families never went that way. We certainly got the butterknife-end in all configurations over the centuries, but never a counter weight. I suppose the idea of pole arm is to keep people away and you don't want close-quarters. However, pole arms once overrun are useless. The Lirpa is good for both, but perhaps bad for each? The Japanese would have been more likely to develop it for their close-quarters style quarter staffs, but something must have kept them from trying as well. The Lirpa makes combat sense to me. Hitting an armored knight with the bulb-end would send the guy stumbling at worst and crushed-in head or chest at best. But I'm just an artist. FASA did not stat it out other than "pole weapon 4d10+5" (Same as a "rifle shot" and less than a "mace/club/flail" by +5)